Comments on: Electric Cars And The Jevons Paradox http://bikeblogs.org/sf/2009/01/05/electric-cars-and-the-jevons-paradox/ Biking in the Bay Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:38:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Old Dude http://bikeblogs.org/sf/2009/01/05/electric-cars-and-the-jevons-paradox/#comment-3756 Old Dude Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:42:06 +0000 http://bikeblogs.org/sf/?p=672#comment-3756 Really good, thoughtful video. It is all true of course. But here is the deal. This is what is usually missing in these types of discourses. That is the growing human population problem. It's simple- more humans=more growth = more pollution and all the other problems caused by humans (de-forestation, water pollution, species extinction etc). Not that hard to understand. The overpopulation by humans is an issue that is skipped over in these discussions. Without doing something about it things will get a hell of a lot more messed up. The only thing the green movement can do from here is soften the fall. There doesn't seem to be a constituency or any national dialogue about limiting population with the historical exception of Chairman Mao's work. (He was a psyco and mass murderer aside from the family size limit program.) All of the positive actions in the video are good ones however any positive gains will be overcome by more population growth. Really good, thoughtful video. It is all true of course. But here is the deal. This is what is usually missing in these types of discourses. That is the growing human population problem. It’s simple- more humans=more growth = more pollution and all the other problems caused by humans (de-forestation, water pollution, species extinction etc). Not that hard to understand. The overpopulation by humans is an issue that is skipped over in these discussions. Without doing something about it things will get a hell of a lot more messed up. The only thing the green movement can do from here is soften the fall. There doesn’t seem to be a constituency or any national dialogue about limiting population with the
historical exception of Chairman Mao’s work. (He was a psyco and mass murderer aside from the family size limit program.)
All of the positive actions in the video are good ones however any positive gains will be overcome by more population growth.

]]> By: Dave Wyman http://bikeblogs.org/sf/2009/01/05/electric-cars-and-the-jevons-paradox/#comment-3751 Dave Wyman Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:16:13 +0000 http://bikeblogs.org/sf/?p=672#comment-3751 This is an important video - I'm going to put a link to it on my blog. For a long time, I've wondered what the effect of making cars that use less gasoline (oil) would have overall. It seemed, to my feeble brain, that if we could use it more efficiently - that is, if we could make it cost less - we'd simply use more of the stuff. We'd use more of it so we could travel farther on personal vacations, to visit Aunt Minnie more often, to drive to work instead of taking the bus. So owning, say, a Prius, while providing a huge increase in the number of miles we can drive relative to the cost, simply means driving more until we bump up against the same cost again. Except now, over time, we have even less gasoline to burn. Which is why I've long thought that making and selling more Prius' won't help. To me, it seemed to be a wash - buy a Prius, but spend as much as before on gasoline. But now I see it's worse than a wash, that cars as efficient as a Prius will, in the long run, make us use more gasoline than if we owned something like the Ford Ranger I use. I think the topic is clouded with other issues that are innately human: personal freedom, human ingenuity, etc. I think, too, there is a self-correcting mechanism, which we see at work right now, as the price of gas, which last year soared and then sank, is rising again. We should be asking ourselves if we can manage our resources so that what is inevitable - a period of self- correction - is rather less, than more, painful. This is an important video - I’m going to put a link to it on my blog.

For a long time, I’ve wondered what the effect of making cars that use less gasoline (oil) would have overall. It seemed, to my feeble brain, that if we could use it more efficiently - that is, if we could make it cost less - we’d simply use more of the stuff.

We’d use more of it so we could travel farther on personal vacations, to visit Aunt Minnie more often, to drive to work instead of taking the bus. So owning, say, a Prius, while providing a huge increase in the number of miles we can drive relative to the cost, simply means driving more until we bump up against the same cost again.

Except now, over time, we have even less gasoline to burn. Which is why I’ve long thought that making and selling more Prius’ won’t help.

To me, it seemed to be a wash - buy a Prius, but spend as much as before on gasoline. But now I see it’s worse than a wash, that cars as efficient as a Prius will, in the long run, make us use more gasoline than if we owned something like the Ford Ranger I use.

I think the topic is clouded with other issues that are innately human: personal freedom, human ingenuity, etc. I think, too, there is a self-correcting mechanism, which we see at work right now, as the price of gas, which last year soared and then sank, is rising again.

We should be asking ourselves if we can manage our resources so that what is inevitable - a period of self- correction - is rather less, than more, painful.

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